Is explicitly deciding "this would be nice to have or be able to do but isn't actually worth the time and effort" an example of this kind of thing, or is the point that one doesn't realize they're doing it?
1) You consider the desire. You guess what it would take to satisfy it. At first approximation, it would take a lot of energy. You wince. You sigh. You tell yourself you don't desire it that much (sour grapes). You decide that it is not worth the time and effort. You still think about it.
2) You consider the desire. You guess how much it would cost. You look at your monthly budget if you can fit it within. You see that you may need to save for 2 months. You look at what you would need to sacrifice. It's clearly not worth the desire. You go "Oh well, let's reconsider a year from now, when I'll hopefully make more money." You even set a reminder to check it again a year from now. You don't think ~at all about it until then.
I think it would be nice to be able to play certain video games in the original Japanese. I estimate that it would take me about four solid years of study to learn enough to actually reach that point, and decide that I don't care enough about the benefit to devote that much time to language learning (which, in the past, I haven't been particularly good at and haven't enjoyed) in order to actually do it.
> Another way to easily avoid desires is to feel envy instead. It is often easier to deprive someone else of something than to get it yourself. It is easier to want to destroy things than to build them. This negative emotion is envy, not jealousy. Jealousy is wanting what they have for yourself, but it is harder because you would then need to want something.
Actually no, it's neither jealousy nor envy. Homer Simpson explains:
Homer: "I'm not jealous, I'm envious. Jealousy is worrying that that someone else will take what you have. Envy is wanting what someone else has. What I feel is envy."
Lisa: "Hmmm." (Picks up dictionary) "Wow, he's right".
I believe that the emotion of wanting to destroy what others have because you don't have it is commonly called "spite" rather than "envy".
the last section about reframing our envy towards something we don't have (born from a lack of positive desire) as a self-affirming, conscious choice not to have that reminds me of nietzsche's conception of slave morality. a person who is too weak to get material revenge can instead get psychological revenge by creating a new morality. the feeling of inferiority towards the ambitious is reframed as a kind of contemptuous superiority, which is really just an ego-defensive persona of resentment.
Is explicitly deciding "this would be nice to have or be able to do but isn't actually worth the time and effort" an example of this kind of thing, or is the point that one doesn't realize they're doing it?
Neither
This is more about the proverbial "second arrow".
Consider two alternatives:
1) You consider the desire. You guess what it would take to satisfy it. At first approximation, it would take a lot of energy. You wince. You sigh. You tell yourself you don't desire it that much (sour grapes). You decide that it is not worth the time and effort. You still think about it.
2) You consider the desire. You guess how much it would cost. You look at your monthly budget if you can fit it within. You see that you may need to save for 2 months. You look at what you would need to sacrifice. It's clearly not worth the desire. You go "Oh well, let's reconsider a year from now, when I'll hopefully make more money." You even set a reminder to check it again a year from now. You don't think ~at all about it until then.
Like, here's the example I'm thinking of.
I think it would be nice to be able to play certain video games in the original Japanese. I estimate that it would take me about four solid years of study to learn enough to actually reach that point, and decide that I don't care enough about the benefit to devote that much time to language learning (which, in the past, I haven't been particularly good at and haven't enjoyed) in order to actually do it.
At this point I must do some nitpicking.
> Another way to easily avoid desires is to feel envy instead. It is often easier to deprive someone else of something than to get it yourself. It is easier to want to destroy things than to build them. This negative emotion is envy, not jealousy. Jealousy is wanting what they have for yourself, but it is harder because you would then need to want something.
Actually no, it's neither jealousy nor envy. Homer Simpson explains:
https://youtu.be/Tmx1jpqv3RA?si=BsfzZJDedQV-ZR8Y
Homer: "I'm not jealous, I'm envious. Jealousy is worrying that that someone else will take what you have. Envy is wanting what someone else has. What I feel is envy."
Lisa: "Hmmm." (Picks up dictionary) "Wow, he's right".
I believe that the emotion of wanting to destroy what others have because you don't have it is commonly called "spite" rather than "envy".
I would not say this is nitpicking!
This is a better word choice than Teach's, and I will likely use it orally from now on, so thanks :)
Ah, good point!
I think "spite" is simply the desire to hurt someone (quickly checking, a dictionary seems to agree).
In which case something like "spite born from envy" is, I think, what he is pointing at.
Just nitpicking back, but I do agree with Gabe that you have pointed at a better choice of words :)
the last section about reframing our envy towards something we don't have (born from a lack of positive desire) as a self-affirming, conscious choice not to have that reminds me of nietzsche's conception of slave morality. a person who is too weak to get material revenge can instead get psychological revenge by creating a new morality. the feeling of inferiority towards the ambitious is reframed as a kind of contemptuous superiority, which is really just an ego-defensive persona of resentment.
You may be interested in https://cognition.cafe/p/the-responsibility-of-the-weak
genius